Curse

CHannum · Jan 22, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Since it has no bearing on me or my friends' game even I'm essentially neutral.

If I ignore the de facto neutrality, I'd consider the practice inherently a negative for the game. As was noted, it's paying someone to play the game for you and only a tiny micrometer away from just buying a few million gold online and decking your character out in perfect gear on day one and imagining you accomplished anything at all. Although I find it interesting that there are people who can get all the way to something like Droks in such a short amount of time, I don't understand why anyone would pay for the service and cheat themselves of the experience of playing a game they paid for.

There's all of ten classes in this game each of which play differently (and if you have access to all 10, at least three different campaign worlds to play in). I've had no problem enjoying myself taking different classes through the same missions and quests because it's interesting to see how different classes perform, to see what you've learned from previous outings, etc.. I figure for those people who aren't enjoying the game, maybe you ought to try something else.

Again, I don't really care all that much, it will never have the sleightest effect on me or anyone I play with's game (well, it is a contributing factor as to why I keep local chat off 97% of the time), it just seems to me that if you've played to the point that you can't stand doing something in the game it's time to move on. My least favorite areas in the game are still worth doing with a friend with teamspeak running.

Olim Chill · Jan 22, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

^

Quote:

As was noted, it's paying someone to play the game for you and only a tiny micrometer away from just buying a few million gold online and decking your character out in perfect gear on day one and imagining you accomplished anything at all.

Micrometer away? You're comparing paying virtual gold for a virtual service to paying real money for virtual gold? That's miles apart.

Buster · Jan 22, 2008, 09:40 PM // 21:40

The most famous run of all "The Droks Run". Probably looked upon as cheating the game but eventually turned into an accomplishment. They should add Droks runs as an achievement/title.

Chrono Re delle Ere · Jan 22, 2008, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

The most famous run of all "The Droks Run". Probably looked upon as cheating the game but eventually turned into an accomplishment. They should add Droks runs as an achievement/title.

Lol that's impossible to record as "run" :P

And anyway, I don't care about runners , I once used to run Drok with Sin, it was one of the harderst builds to use (when it worked) and it was also hard to start without engaging eventual scammers/impatient guys who leave because of 1 kill. I could manage to make a run in 13 mins, 3k each, got a lot of money, 2 days after the build got nerfed and I didn't really want to make a derv so I focused on something else.

Mordakai · Jan 22, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Bottom line, if Anet was against Running, they would have closed it down.

It's a shame they made Factions and Nightfall less runnable though. Takes away part of the exploring fun, IMO.

Dev121 · Jan 22, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

The most famous run of all "The Droks Run". Probably looked upon as cheating the game but eventually turned into an accomplishment. They should add Droks runs as an achievement/title.

It's too easy now, if anyone cant run it now with at least 99% success rate then they need to give it up. Dervish runners made running far too easy, gone are the days where people use wammo's through choice and there goes the challange.

I wonder who the best runner in the game was, Blue had the most impact but he wasn't the best.

X El Queso Grande X · Jan 22, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Like most people have said already, runners help with skipping parts that people have played a million times. I thought the running business was doomed after factions came out, but looks like people are still finding ways in NF and EoTN.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 22, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrono Re delle Ere

Lol that's impossible to record as "run" :P

And anyway, I don't care about runners , I once used to run Drok with Sin, it was one of the harderst builds to use (when it worked) and it was also hard to start without engaging eventual scammers/impatient guys who leave because of 1 kill. I could manage to make a run in 13 mins, 3k each, got a lot of money, 2 days after the build got nerfed and I didn't really want to make a derv so I focused on something else.

The one I use still works

Also to the topic

I have no problem with runners since I am one of those lazy players who will pay for a run if its my 5th time through or I just need to get something

mr_stealth · Jan 22, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I don't care much for runners/runnees, but I can't stand the people that answer a new player's question about where/how to get armor with "don't buy it here, get ran to droks". Getting your first character ran throught half the game is a great way to end up being stuck near the end of the game and too clueless to kill anything. Pushing new players into getting runs is just forcing the already pathetic average skill level found in pugs even lower.

Getting a 3rd-4th character ran is a bit more reasonable, but I think it makes you lose out on some valuable early learning experience for a new profession. Each new profession really should be learned on its own. Two years of elementalist experience isn't going to mean a thing when you make a new monk. If the game bores you so much that you can't stand doing missions/quests on your new character, it might be time to find a new game.

The only case I consider runs acceptable in is replacing/rerolling a character. If someone chooses to replace a character, doing all the "work" should be part of that, but skipping it isn't going to have any negative effect.

My views on runners/running come from first hand experience, and from seeing the results when others got their first/early characters ran. I replaced a few characters because of runs that my idiot friends pulled me along on(none of them had any right to get ran either). I remade my oldest character (my ele) almost a year after making the first, and I can honestly say that I picked up a fair amount of experience, and new-found interest in the profession, from doing so.

mrmango · Jan 22, 2008, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Running is lazy, but I have got runs and have ran people.

Also, factions and nf did amazingly to stop running. Just do the missions, then explore. Also, don't be dumb.

Operative 14 · Jan 23, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

it is bad because, my logical assumption if its the player's first character that:

1) when they get run, they don't use their character to fight, hence they lack the practice that is needed to get them to where they are. hence we get un-skilled players in the end game area, hence spoiling the PUG experience.

2) going to high end area also means you need Gold, without playing the game, you obviously do not get any drop, hence where do you get the gold? possibly this could lead to people wanting to buy in game gold from illegally party?

but... I don't mind them because they could come in handy sometime when I am really lazy to do a mission on my 10th character for the 100th time (expression only)...

*Not flaming, just responding*

You have to admit, running caters to a market that renders both of those points moot.

1) Those people probably use heroes and Henchmen anyway, so they aren't detracting from their ability in PUG's because they don't use them.

And

2) People who get runs are established players, and usually are getting runs only because they know what they want and have enough money to do so. Granted, you might get people that might E-bay gold, but I think you have to admit that them getting runs is the least of the trouble they cause.

Besides, running acts as a great unofficial gold sink, because the gold doesn't disappear, it goes to other players. And thus it keeps gold circulating, so it's good for the ingame economy. Otherwise the only reason players would have to circulate money is trading for items... and that returns to the second point in that trading for items is a much more effective reason for people to E-bay gold than getting a run would ever be.

CHannum · Jan 23, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olim lll

Micrometer away? You're comparing paying virtual gold for a virtual service to paying real money for virtual gold? That's miles apart.

No, micrometers.

You get gold by whatever means and you fast forward your character to endgame status in mere hours. You might have gotten the game gold by playing the game, you might have gotten it by ordering from one of those fine, upstanding gold sellers. Either way, you didn't actually play your character to endgame status, you bought your way there. Game gold for GW is cheap, you can get enough gold to get run to Droks, slap max weapons & armor on the toon, and leveled to L20 for a lot less than a modest lunch at Taco Bell. Don't kid yourself that there's this massive game ethics gulf between justifying saving yourself the time of playing a character to endgame areas by buying the run with in game earned gold versus doing the same thing by spending a few bucks with a gold seller.

I don't lose any sleep over people who have some urge for yet another toon they didn't play, I just don't understand it. My least favorite times playing the game (*cough* Crystal Desert *cough*) have still given me a lot more fun than a fast food lunch's worth of content skippage.

**cosyfiep** · Jan 23, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

My first thought whenever I hear a "runner" announcement in chat is always the same: "where's the fun in that?" Sheesh, why not pay someone to just play your character while you go watch TV or something.

It just seems nonsensical to me. The only case where I can see using a runner is for a mission or quest you simply could not beat on your own and could not find a group for. But that situation ... has never happened to me.

I guess I don't care one way or the other about runners, and some of them are very good at what they do, I know, but using one, to me anyway, seems like admitting the game in some respect has defeated you.

exactly....if you need to have your 15th character ran thru the game, why did you make character 15???? truly I make characters to PLAY them, that means doing the missions (yeah I dont like some of them either---and I DO have 17 characters--I enjoy playing the game and missions etc are part of the game).
Level 3 characters are not meant to have max armor, etc. I do understand that there are some missions that are harder to do, but having a mission run for you is not playing the game (help out with the mission, get in a guild that helps newer characters with stuff like that, etc.).
Getting runs defeats the purpose of the game which is to PLAY it, if you do this you will get to that place soon enough.

Operative 14 · Jan 23, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I think one thing that needs to be taken from this thread is that everyone has a different, and personally based, moral standing on this issue. No where has it been said that running is illegal in the game, whereas Gold Selling/Buying definately is. In fact, there was an article where the developers clearly state that it was "an intended design element".

Arguing this is like arguing politics, everyone has an opinion, and everyone thinks they are right. However, just like politics, this does not mean that anyone is right or wrong for approving or disapproving of the practice of running. Everyone is right, and again just like politics, it would be nice if people could stop insulting each other over differences of opinion.

If you play through the game 20 times with 20 different character, and still enjoy playing through it personally, then I truely commend you. However, that does not give you the right to insult your fellow players becuase of their playing practices.

Yichi · Jan 23, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Meh who cares what someone else gets ran or not. I play how I feel I want too. If that involves me making a new character and skipping ahead to get better armor, than finishing the objective, than so be it. If I choose to play normally than thats my choice. Who is anyone else to tell me how I should play a game that I paid for.

Red Sonya · Jan 23, 2008, 07:57 AM // 07:57

All Anet needs to do is eliminate the rewards of getting a run and then I have no problem with people who want to run the content for "nothing". Keep the requirements of factions reputations and locked gates/doors and run all you wish since there will be nothing at the end of the run. I'm pretty sure GW2 will follow this path as GWEN was really the best one. It doesn't even require locked doors or gates because you can't get the armor without the reputation points.

strcpy · Jan 23, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

exactly....if you need to have your 15th character ran thru the game, why did you make character 15????

Various reasons - maybe you just want to goof off in the UW with your guild and have to have a specific elite, maybe you like being a "god" in low level areas, maybe you like doing something other than what cosyfiep does (and since you are not the God of Gaming and are able to declare all things Fun or Not Fun I can see where others disagree).

For myself I don't care much for runs on "mains" - they are where they are through their own volition. But for a farming character? They aren't there to play, they are there to acquire gold - I don't really enjoy playing a monk or ritualist but I do find some farming runs enjoyable with them - why should I then spend how many hours of not having fun to get to that point?

Then there are things that used to not be possible but now are. The last run I got was on my Canthan born necro to cap Spiteful Spirit once she unlocked Tyria (she was level 20 at the time and past Vizunah Square - I decided to change from Death to Curse). It was *less* abusive than my re-roll of a ranger who purchased an elite ranger tome at level two and learn "Barrage". Was that Evil(Tm) and avoiding playing the character? Why is that remotely worse than purchasing an Elite Necro tome - that is even *less* playing than the run! (in my case it was the fourth time I had capped the skill). Both are obviously part of the game mechanics.

Meh, the purpose of a game is to have fun, if I'm not doing that then something is wrong. Of course, if my definition of "fun" is to ruin others gaming time (read griefers, kill stealer's, and other types of disruptive individuals) then no, that doesn't count in what I am talking about. However there are quite a few reasons to purchase a run. I tend to agree that if you are using runners to avoid playing the game then why "play"? But then I suspect few are really doing that if for no other reason than the cost needed for a runner ensures quite a bit of playing to get to that level (or e-bay gold, which generally results in a perma-ban).

In the end I would rather have an individual purchasing chapters/expansion and helping keep the game alive yet not playing in the way I would than being "pure" and having a dead game. Of course, that is your choice and many seem to indicate they would rather have a dead game - but then Anet more or less sides with me on this one (now, if only they would have on the BMP debacle).

Olim Chill · Jan 23, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

No, micrometers.
Don't kid yourself that there's this massive game ethics gulf between justifying saving yourself the time of playing a character to endgame areas by buying the run with in game earned gold versus doing the same thing by spending a few bucks with a gold seller.

Actually, you're kidding yourself. Using real world money to buy gold violates GW RoC. Running does not, no matter how you feel about it. If you can't see the difference between an ingame service that does not violate game policy and the real-world-cash-for-game-goodies racket, and all its baggage, your view must be obstructed.

Red Sonya · Jan 23, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Sorry, but anyone who has 10 to 15 characters needs to get a life and away from the computer. These people have an addiction problem and need to seek help and quick. You'll end up spending your entire lives playing games and shirking your responsibilities. The first sign of this addiction would and will be an attack on this post. Other signs are denial or I can stop anytime I want to type statements. Addiction is a hard thing to overcome because most don't realize they are addicted until it's too late. When their wife or girlfriend leaves them, when they no longer have any real world friends an all their socalled friends are online. There are many more things that show and prove addiction, but, I'm not going to list everyone of them.

Solas · Jan 23, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

I'm sure everyone by now knows what runners are and what they do. So I just got to thinking, what does everyone think of them? Here are my thoughts:

Runners for hard areas, like certain missions, Drok's, etc. are okay. And even ferries to the docks in Istan are fine as well. But the runners in the Marketplace charging for runs to Kaineng Center, well I don't get that because if you just stick to the left (north) and avoid aggro, you can get there without even engaging in a fight. But yeah, what does everyone else think?

I got maybe 2 runs from Market to Kc because iwas lazy and didnt know of ther route, was only 100g each so ididnt mind

But yeah if i feel lazy and have some spare money i somtimes get a runner, as conviently enough my internet allows me to get a runner and play War3 at same time so wit works out nicly.